Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Do we know what can the software running on the secure enclave do exactly? If the software itself doesn't have access to the master key (a.i. can't read it directly), and if the slow authentication is inherent from running the algorithm on the chip, rather than a having been slowed down artificially, then even an update to the secure enclave would not compromise the security of the system.

Do we know exactly what the secure enclave software can do and what it can't do?



> if the slow authentication is inherent from running the algorithm on the chip, rather than a having been slowed down artificially

There is no known cryptographic algorithm that provides inherently increasing times. The slowdown is entirely artificial, and it is believed that an update could remove it.


I was under the impression that the algorithm (running on the secure enclave?) takes at least 200ms. Yes, obviously longer times are artificial, but my question is whether the 200ms baseline is artificial or not.

Of course this doesn't really matter at all if modified software could just read the key from the chip. That is the most interesting question. So, can it? Or can the software only provide data to the chip, to do the algorithm in hardware, but the software can't read the key burned (?) into the chip.


Their hash algorithm takes ~80ms per attempt. All crypto happens on a dedicated AES engine. Files are encrypted with a key derived from UID (device key which cannot be extracted via firmware) and passphrase.


So if the key can't be extracted via the firmware, someone updating the firmware, even with malicious intent, should not be a problem, am I correct?


With a sufficiently complex passphrase, it's not a problem. With a typical 6-digit PIN, disabling the artificial delay and auto-wipe (which is possible via firmware updates) is all you need for a successful brute-force attack.


Thanks for the clarifications.


The 200ms hash baseline (on all up-to-date iPhones) is not artificial, but the increasing time is.

Unfortunately, I don't believe the answers to your other questions are known to anybody other than Apple right now.


It does not matter for the case at hand, which is FBI wanting to bruteforce the code without 10-try erase.


Yes, it does not matter for the case at hand, but it is very important in general, and it has been brought into attention up the thread.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: